Nothing about Scott Gill's life is most likely normal
О Торчвуде, о Скотте, о однаполых браках, детях, о его остальных проэктах.....
When I walk onto the Los Angeles set of Torchwood: Miracle Day, John Barrowman is in full performance mode, but the cameras aren’t rolling. Everyone’s waiting for the next scene to be ready, so in the meantime, Barrowman is entertaining the crew and his fellow cast members with an elaborate anecdote that involved two perfectly-executed pratfalls and a dead-on impersonation of Carol Channing.
With that kind of showman’s instinct, it’s no surprise that Barrowman, 44, has become an international sensation for his starring role as Torchwood’s Captain Jack Harkness, a bisexual, immortal con man who spends his days chasing down aliens and other bizarre phenomena. But even when he’s not topping the bill on the hit BBC series, which has traveled Stateside for its new season, co-produced by the Starz network, the Scottish-born, Illinois-raised Barrowman keeps his fanbase busy with multiple projects in his adopted United Kingdom – he’s a TV presenter, musical theater star, and even the co-author of a series of young adult sci-fi novels.
When we spoke on set (in a conversation that was interrupted two or three times so he could shoot scenes for Miracle Day, which premieres July 8 on Starz), he shared his thoughts about the show, his career, his longtime relationship with Scott Gill, and even his mock rivalry with Neil Patrick Harris, with whom he battled over AfterElton.com’s Gay/Bisexual Man of the Decade poll. (Note: British TV uses the word “series” in the way that Americans use “season.”)
читать дальшеAfterElton.com: Bringing Torchwood to the U.S., does it feel like you’re starting over again?
John Barrowman: Ironically enough, it doesn’t, because it’s what I’ve known, it’s what we’ve known as a team for the past four series. What was interesting was that when we came here, a lot of people working on the crew thought we were a new show, and someone said, “Oh yeah, working on this show is tough because of blahblahblah,” and I said, “Dude, I’ve been working on this show – this is my fourth series.” And he went, “Really?”
But Torchwood is continually evolving; every series, we’ve done something different, so why not bring it to this side of the Atlantic, which I’m chuffed about and raring to go.
AE: You mention people thinking it’s a new show – with the move to Starz and the expansion to, presumably, a larger audience Stateside, is this series designed to accommodate first-time viewers?
JB: I’ll tell you the standard answer: This series, if you’ve been a loyal follower – which we appreciate you being – you’ll be able to pick up and know where we’ve left off, because there are some references to the back stuff in it and other things that have happened; we’ve got references to Ianto [Captain Jack’s lover, who died at the end of the third series, Torchwood: Children of Earth], we’ve got references to [Doctor Who], we’ve got references to The Hub.
But if you’re a new audience member who wants to see what Torchwood is all about and you want to come and join the Torchwood family, you will be able to pick up and things will be explained to you as we go along. It’s one of those series where you will not have to know what has come before. But what will be interesting is that once you’ve seen this one, you’re going to want to go back and watch [series] one, two, and three to see where it all evolved from. This is a stand-alone series, but also a continuation, and that’s what’s so brilliant about the writing, with [creator] Russell [T. Davies] and our team of writers this series, they’re able to capture that in both ways. It’s the best of both worlds, really.
AE: You guys are coming off of a really dark story…
JB: And we’re going into another really dark story. In Miracle Day, a massive event happens – everybody wakes up one morning and everyone’s immortal. And immediately you think that’s a fantastic thing, nobody can die, but actually it could also be a terrible thing: Think about the population problems, or if you’re ill – because if you’re decapitated in a car accident, you’re still alive, right? You’ll still feel pain. There’s medical issues, there’s drug issues, and what’s really interesting about this series and that event that happens is that it’s kind of mimicking what’s going on in the world today, but at a heightened scale.
The questions that are asked in Episode One will be answered in Episode Ten, so you’re not gonna be four series down the line and still not having an answer. But within that storyline, there’s all these other issues and questions that are raised that get answered also, and lead you in a different direction throughout the series. So yeah, it’s dark. One thing that I love about Torchwood, and that I love about Jack and Gwen and what we do with this – we go to the areas that other shows won’t go to, and we raise those issues and questions, and it shocks people a little bit. And that’s what we’re gonna do again.
AE: How are we finding Jack after all that’s happened?
JB: You find Jack somewhere on planet Earth, you’re not told where, and he’s in a little dark room on his computer, and he’s actually trying to keep the Torchwood name off the radar. Every time it pops up, he’s killing it, because his philosophy is that Torchwood and himself have caused a lot of pain and trouble, and that’s why he needs to wipe it out.
But he’s also protecting Gwen, who has been hidden away somewhere on planet Earth. But then this event happens, and Torchwood’s name starts coming up and Jack realizes that he can’t control it. This little snowball starts to get bigger and bigger, and he has to come out of hiding, and he has to protect Gwen, has to go to her rescue, and that’s how the team comes back together.
AE: And whatever happened to Alonso from the Titanic?
JB: Oh man, you know! [laughs] This is Russell’s answer on that one, because I would have loved to have had a nice scene with Russell Tovey, that would have been great. But Russell T. Davies says he couldn’t have gone to a network and said, “Here’s this character, Captain Jack Harkness, the hero of our show. He’s already got a boyfriend, he’s already got this, he’s already got that, blahblahblahblah. This is what you have to accept.”
He couldn’t really do that. And also Russell [Tovey]’s got his own career on Being Human; if he wants to bite me at any time, he can. And he knows that, because I text him every so often just to keep in touch with what’s going on. In fact, I hope to see him at Comic-Con this year, because I don’t get to see him as much in the UK as I would like to. I say that like he’s my best mate, but hopefully I’ll see him at Comic-Con.
AE: So speaking of Comic-Con, how would you differentiate your musical theater fanbase from your sci-fi fanbase?
JB: I don’t differentiate them – I think they’re one and the same because musical theater to me is a heightened reality, where we take subject matter and deal with it in a different way, which would be through song – when you no longer can speak, you have to burst into song and express yourself that way, or through dance. Sci-fi is very much the same; you deal with subject matter with aliens and things that are unreal and situations that are slightly unreal and heightened. So I think the crossover – a lot of my sci-fi fans have gone to see some musicals because they like some of the shows and they like that aspect of it, and vice versa, the musical fans who I’ve introduced to sci-fi. A lot of people may disagree with me, but I don’t see them as very different, because I think the heightened reality of it all makes them the same.
AE: Do they both have the same level of fervor?
JB: Passion, are you talking? Yes. And I absolutely love that. It’s very interesting when I talk to people about the passion of sci-fi fans and the passion of musical theater fans; some can use the word “obsessive,” but I have no problem with that, because I myself am a sci-fi fan and I myself am a musical theater fan, so when I go to Comic-Con, I give myself my time beforehand to walk around and buy all my T-shirts. Last time, I had them build me an Iron Man statue and all that kind of stuff. So I understand it, and I appreciate it, and I don’t want anyone to change.
AE: You wore a kilt to your civil union ceremony, right?
JB: I did, yes.
AE: That’s one of those indelibly-burned images.
JB: Is it, really? I was a true Scotsman, there was nothing underneath. Or rather, there is something underneath, but…
AE: No article of clothing, gotcha. How’s married life going?
JB: It’s going really well! Scott and I have been together now for 17 years. The difference is, and I say this because I know everyone out there is an advocate for civil partnerships or marriage or whatever you want to call it in this country, all of a sudden Scott comes over here and we don’t have the same legal rights as we do in the UK. And while I’m fortunate enough to have an American passport and my dual nationality, he’s not recognized as my partner, and so he doesn’t have the same benefits that I do over here, which I think is absolutely ridiculous.
When we go through customs, purposely we go though together, I take him with me in my line. They say he should be in the other line, and I say, “No, he’s my partner.” And when they say, “What do you mean, partner?” I never call him this, but I say, “He’s my husband,” just to stir them up a little bit, because I just like to see their reaction. And they actually say to us, “We don’t recognize that in this country.” And it angers me.
AE: The whole bi-national couple issue is getting a lot more attention lately.
JB: Sure! Loads of my friends who are Americans have partners who are from Europe somewhere. Not even just that – it’s a problem for people here, two Americans who are wanting to settle down and to have a marriage and to solidify what they have. We should be able to, so I hope it changes quite soon. The really nice thing is that there’s a whole generation out there that’s coming up, and it’s my nephew and niece’s age, and they really don’t give a shit. And they’re the ones – we’re pushing for the change, and I don’t want to sound like an old fogey, but they’re the ones who are probably gonna make that change. I think there was a poll the other day that said 57% of people don’t mind if two men or two women have a marriage or have that status, so things are changing. I say we take the marriage word out of it.
AE: Really?
JB: That’s my opinion. Because that’s what upsets the religious people the most. Plus, I know there’s a lot of faith-based gay men and women out there, and that’s a great thing, but I just feel if that word “marriage” means so much to the fundamentalists and all those radicals out there that they don’t want to lose it, let them have it. Let’s create another name for it.
I think if the government got out of the marriage business and made “marriage” an exclusively religious thing, then yeah, everybody would get their partnership, their union, whatever, and the issue of “marriage” be decided from religion to religion. But as long as government sanctions marriage, not getting that under that same name puts us in the separate-but-equal zone.
But also, I’ll just remind all those groups that claim ownership of that word, that word was not a religious word when it began. It was because marriage was happening that the church grabbed onto it, to have something to do with it. So it wasn’t yours to begin with.So give it back!
AE: Are you guys thinking about parenting?
JB: Ah! [inhales sharply] You know, I would love to. I don’t think Scott is as gung-ho with it at the moment as I am, because I think…well, I’d have to let him say for himself. But [if] I really wanted to, I think he would. I think we would have one and I would adopt one. But with what I’m doing, traveling back and forth, it would be quite difficult and it would be unfair to put a child into different schools all the time, although Eve is doing it with her baby. But I think they’re gonna stay here a lot longer – Scott and I have to go back and forth, because I’ve got shows in the UK that I gotta do, plus I produce one over there.
So it would be a little more difficult, and I think that if we adopted, we wouldn’t be adopting a baby. We’d be adopting a child that was a little older, not just because we don’t want to deal with diapers but because there are a lot of children out there who are of an older age who don’t get adopted. And also teenagers. Scott and I have talked about this, and we could offer a great deal, and give a lot of love; we have a great home, a great solid grounding for them, and also great opportunities. So that’s how we look at it.
AE: Because you know, your arch-nemesis Neil Patrick Harris has kids now.
JB: Well, you know, that’s … they’ve got the babies, and they’re a bit younger than Scott and I are, and that’s great. My nieces and nephews, I changed their diapers and stuff, but I think I wouldn’t mind having one of my own. But upfront, I’d have to have a nanny. Or a manny. A manny who doubles as a pool-boy. [laughs] You gotta have one, and I’m sure Neil Patrick Harris has one, let me tell you. [laughs]
AE: I was Arts Editor at the Advocate when you did your coming-out interview in the magazine, around the time that De-Lovely was released. Did that change things?
JB: The funny thing is, that no one really took notice of it. And when I did it, it was almost by accident, and it just happened. I was asked about it, and I mentioned my partner Scott, and actually the interviewer said to me, “Do you realize that you just came out?” And I went, “I didn’t ever really think I was in.” You know, everybody knew I was gay.
I don’t think it’s changed anything. Again, all the guys who are my age or older, we can start sounding bit old-fashioned if we keep harping about how things haven’t changed or we’re still struggling. Yes, there’s a good deal of things out there that need to change, but the generation that’s coming up – and in the gay world, five years is a generation, you know what I mean? – men who are five years, ten years younger than us, they’re making changes themselves, and actually they’re doing things by not doing things, if that makes sense. Because it’s not that big an issue to them. And I’m not denying what we’ve gone though, what we’ve done…
AE: No, but I think the goal for people our age was to make being gay less of a big deal.
JB: And it’s worked! That’s what happened. And it’s worked for this other generation, but we still have a whole lot of people out there who are not openly gay because they think it’s going to affect their jobs and stuff. Now I’m not out there to out people, and if that’s what you choose to do, that’s your choice, and I don’t see anything wrong with that. But I must say, if you’re doing it because you think it’s detrimental to your career, the more of us who come out and do things openly – I guarantee you, there’s a lot of us in Hollywood.
And if we all just come out and don’t worry about it – in fact, not even come out, just live. If we could just be ourselves and live and not pretend and not lie and not have beards, things would be a lot different. And the public, in a way, has to accept that stuff. If a big Hollywood A-lister came out, do you really think it’s going to affect the films?
AE: They obviously do. But no, I’m with you on that one.
JB: People are not that stupid. And I think we need to give the people more power in that sense. There might be an area of society that will never believe it, will never want to believe it, but that’s their choice. I don’t have a choice, they do. You know what I mean?
AE: So getting back to the show: This is your fourth go-round, and every time you got bumped up the BBC chain [the first series aired on BBC Three, the second on BBC Two, the third on BBC One], and now you’re a US-UK co-production. Did you have any idea that it would be this kind of ride when you started?
JB: No, I had no idea. I wanted it to be this kind of ride when we started, and my wish came true. We started off on the smallest digital channel from the BBC, we got the biggest ratings on that and moved to BBC Two, we had stellar ratings on that. Moved to BBC One, stellar ratings also. I knew they were working to push this further, but wasn’t allowed to talk about it, so when I was saying publicly my opinion that I wished there were more episodes than five, that it would be silly if we didn’t do it again, that was John Barrowman speaking, because I love Captain Jack, I love the show, I know how much the show is loved.
So I got in a little bit of shtick from people saying I was too outspoken and speaking out against the BBC – I wasn’t. I was actually just saying what my opinion was: If you have a good job, you want more of it. And fortunately, Russell and Julie, who runs the BBC, and Starz were all banding together to make it happen, and they have. So I did get my wish! I got more episodes, I got more Torchwood, I got more Captain Jack.
AE: Work on world peace next time.
JB: [laughs] Stick me in a room with all these leaders, I tell ya – I’ll show them a thing or two. That’s what I always think they should do: Strip ’em all down and sit ’em in a room naked, see what happens. I wouldn’t want to be there, I wouldn’t want to be watching that, but it might calm things down a little.
AE: Is the show divorced from Doctor Who now?
JB: No, we mention the Doctor in this series. Because we’re part of that world, we came from that world. You can’t deny your history. But we are a stand-alone show now. What I always say is that we separated from the mothership, but we still make references and hopefully, one day, Jack will go back to Who. That’s my opinion, not anybody else’s, but I would love to cross over with the new Doctor and just see what would happen with him and Jack.
I would have loved to have done that with Liz Sladen – Liz always wanted to work more with me – but unfortunately that won’t happen now. Our matriarch is gone. [Sladen, beloved Doctor Who co-star and the star of the Davies-scripted Who spin-off The Sarah Jane Adventures, died April 19 after battling cancer. Barrowman and Sladen appeared together briefly during the 2008 Doctor Who series finale.]
AE: For U.S. television, Captain Jack is something of an anomaly – we have a handful of queer characters, but not many action heroes. Does he stand out less among the characters on UK TV?
JB: It’s just part of the landscape, I think. We don’t really make an issue out of it. I’m not the first person on American television who’s a bisexual character, but there are a lot of characters represented. I’m quoting what Russell has said, I’m sure there’s others out there, but it’s the first time that a bisexual hero has been played by an openly gay man. There’s no heroes out there where the men [who play them] are openly gay. And that’s just what it is, really, but it’s not an issue in the UK, even when it started.
I remember the episode of Doctor Who where I kiss the Doctor, it just kind of came and went, and no one made an issue out of it. No one said anything; the newspapers actually kind of missed it, and we didn’t make it a big sensational thing out of it. I don’t think it will be an issue over here, and if it is – well, excuse me, but change the fucking channel. [laughs] Do you know what I mean?
AE: It’s just that queer characters are all over the American TV landscape, but they tend to be lawyers, or they’re in comedies. We don’t get a lot of derring-do.
JB: No, you don’t, but it’s time we do. What people have to remember is that I’m a gay man at home and in the outside world, and at work I’m a hero. I don’t bring my personal life into the – well, actually, this sounds stupid, but I have sex with men, Captain Jack has sex with men, so maybe I do bring my personal life into it. [laughs] But I’ve played heterosexual characters, I’ve played ingénues, I’ve played the lead characters in most of the shows I’ve been in, and most of them have been straight. So this is actually something different for me, in a way. Listen, it will be interesting to see how it takes, and I’m sure I’ll get some kind of … people will always complain about something.
AE: And actually, if anyone has sailed these waters in American TV, it’s Starz with Spartacus.
JB: Correct, and thank god for Starz. We’re so glad to be with such a good network, because they’re the ones who break the boundaries a little bit more than the others. A lot of people were worried that we were going to be watered-down when we went to American, but we’re actually not – we’re even edgier than before. There’s some really great sex scenes with Jack and some men, and it’s really portrayed truthfully and honestly, it’s fantastic. People who complain, generally, are the people who don’t even watch the damn show.
And I’ve had first-hand experience with that in the UK, where they’ve complained about something I’ve done, and you go and read what they said, and you know they’ve not read the article, they didn’t listen to the radio show, and they’ve not seen the TV show. They don’t know what the hell they’re talking about.
AE: That’s the nature of the internet commenter. It’s great that Russell has maintained so much control over the show, because Showtime recently aired Episodes over here. I don’t know if you saw it, but it’s about two creators of a British hit show having everything changed in the U.S. version. And that’s happened to a lot of UK talent when their shows have crossed the pond.
JB: Well one thing you have to remember is that we’re a collaboration between the BBC Worldwide, and also BBC One with Starz. We still have the heart and essence of what’s made Torchwood so special, and we still have that. And we have everything that’s even edgier on top of that. So the soul of the show has not changed. I can guarantee to the audience who’s going to watch it because they’re staunch fans, they’re gonna know what they’re looking at.
AE: Had you been much of a sci-fi fan before this gig?
JB: Oh god, yeah! I grew up on Star Wars, I still have all my Star Wars toys – actually, I gave them to my nephew Turner, he looks after them now. The original Battlestar Galactica, Space: 1999, Star Trek, um, Thunderbirds, even coming up into the new era of V, I remember the original miniseries. And Doctor Who! I was a Doctor Who baby; I grew up watching Sarah Jane as one of the assistants, Tom Baker, John Pertwee, all the Doctors of that time. I used to stay up and watch PBS, because that’s where you got Doctor Who. I’m a fan-geek, and I’m proud, and I love it. To this day, I still download shows I can’t watch when they’re airing. I still have Battlestar Galactica to get through, the new series. But it’s great, one of the directors from that, we’ve worked with her here.
AE: Do you see an end to Torchwood?
JB: Well obviously, there will be an end to it at some point, but you know, I’m not ready for it to end. Touch wood, what I’d love to have happen is we do four or five more series, keep going strong, and then finish, and then maybe a year after, do a movie. I don’t know what I’ll look like, you know…
AE: Playing an immortal can be a drag.
JB: Exactly! I am gonna get older, so we have to figure something out. But I would be happy – although I do other entertainment stuff, I do other TV shows, I do books with my sister for young teenagers, I’ve got my music – if someone were to say to me, you’re only going to play Captain Jack for the rest of your career, I would be completely content. I love him, I love the show, I love what we stand for, I love what he stands for, and I love coming to work every day. It’s a thrill.
AE: Will you ever do a musical episode?
JB: I’d love to. I don’t know if Russell’s game for it, but I’d love to do one. We’d have to be on a planet where music controls everything, or is the only mode of communication. I would have no problem. But I think we’d have to dub Eve [Myles’] voice, she’s not a singer. [laughs]
AE: She could always talk her way through like Rex Harrison.
JB: Kai [Owen] would be great. Alexa [Havins]? Not so sure. Mekhi [Phifer]? He’s a great rapper. So we’ve got every demographic covered.
AE: Any final thoughts?
JB: Thank you to everyone at AfterElton for all the support you’ve given me over the years, and to all the people who hit the website and put me in the top five every year in the best gay men out there poll, I really appreciate it and I’m proud to represent the gay-lesbian-bisexual-transgender community, and I will always do that, no matter what. Anyone who doesn’t have a voice will always have a voice through me.
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When I walk onto the Los Angeles set of Torchwood: Miracle Day, John Barrowman is in full performance mode, but the cameras aren’t rolling. Everyone’s waiting for the next scene to be ready, so in the meantime, Barrowman is entertaining the crew and his fellow cast members with an elaborate anecdote that involved two perfectly-executed pratfalls and a dead-on impersonation of Carol Channing.
With that kind of showman’s instinct, it’s no surprise that Barrowman, 44, has become an international sensation for his starring role as Torchwood’s Captain Jack Harkness, a bisexual, immortal con man who spends his days chasing down aliens and other bizarre phenomena. But even when he’s not topping the bill on the hit BBC series, which has traveled Stateside for its new season, co-produced by the Starz network, the Scottish-born, Illinois-raised Barrowman keeps his fanbase busy with multiple projects in his adopted United Kingdom – he’s a TV presenter, musical theater star, and even the co-author of a series of young adult sci-fi novels.
When we spoke on set (in a conversation that was interrupted two or three times so he could shoot scenes for Miracle Day, which premieres July 8 on Starz), he shared his thoughts about the show, his career, his longtime relationship with Scott Gill, and even his mock rivalry with Neil Patrick Harris, with whom he battled over AfterElton.com’s Gay/Bisexual Man of the Decade poll. (Note: British TV uses the word “series” in the way that Americans use “season.”)
читать дальшеAfterElton.com: Bringing Torchwood to the U.S., does it feel like you’re starting over again?
John Barrowman: Ironically enough, it doesn’t, because it’s what I’ve known, it’s what we’ve known as a team for the past four series. What was interesting was that when we came here, a lot of people working on the crew thought we were a new show, and someone said, “Oh yeah, working on this show is tough because of blahblahblah,” and I said, “Dude, I’ve been working on this show – this is my fourth series.” And he went, “Really?”
But Torchwood is continually evolving; every series, we’ve done something different, so why not bring it to this side of the Atlantic, which I’m chuffed about and raring to go.
AE: You mention people thinking it’s a new show – with the move to Starz and the expansion to, presumably, a larger audience Stateside, is this series designed to accommodate first-time viewers?
JB: I’ll tell you the standard answer: This series, if you’ve been a loyal follower – which we appreciate you being – you’ll be able to pick up and know where we’ve left off, because there are some references to the back stuff in it and other things that have happened; we’ve got references to Ianto [Captain Jack’s lover, who died at the end of the third series, Torchwood: Children of Earth], we’ve got references to [Doctor Who], we’ve got references to The Hub.
But if you’re a new audience member who wants to see what Torchwood is all about and you want to come and join the Torchwood family, you will be able to pick up and things will be explained to you as we go along. It’s one of those series where you will not have to know what has come before. But what will be interesting is that once you’ve seen this one, you’re going to want to go back and watch [series] one, two, and three to see where it all evolved from. This is a stand-alone series, but also a continuation, and that’s what’s so brilliant about the writing, with [creator] Russell [T. Davies] and our team of writers this series, they’re able to capture that in both ways. It’s the best of both worlds, really.
AE: You guys are coming off of a really dark story…
JB: And we’re going into another really dark story. In Miracle Day, a massive event happens – everybody wakes up one morning and everyone’s immortal. And immediately you think that’s a fantastic thing, nobody can die, but actually it could also be a terrible thing: Think about the population problems, or if you’re ill – because if you’re decapitated in a car accident, you’re still alive, right? You’ll still feel pain. There’s medical issues, there’s drug issues, and what’s really interesting about this series and that event that happens is that it’s kind of mimicking what’s going on in the world today, but at a heightened scale.
The questions that are asked in Episode One will be answered in Episode Ten, so you’re not gonna be four series down the line and still not having an answer. But within that storyline, there’s all these other issues and questions that are raised that get answered also, and lead you in a different direction throughout the series. So yeah, it’s dark. One thing that I love about Torchwood, and that I love about Jack and Gwen and what we do with this – we go to the areas that other shows won’t go to, and we raise those issues and questions, and it shocks people a little bit. And that’s what we’re gonna do again.
AE: How are we finding Jack after all that’s happened?
JB: You find Jack somewhere on planet Earth, you’re not told where, and he’s in a little dark room on his computer, and he’s actually trying to keep the Torchwood name off the radar. Every time it pops up, he’s killing it, because his philosophy is that Torchwood and himself have caused a lot of pain and trouble, and that’s why he needs to wipe it out.
But he’s also protecting Gwen, who has been hidden away somewhere on planet Earth. But then this event happens, and Torchwood’s name starts coming up and Jack realizes that he can’t control it. This little snowball starts to get bigger and bigger, and he has to come out of hiding, and he has to protect Gwen, has to go to her rescue, and that’s how the team comes back together.
AE: And whatever happened to Alonso from the Titanic?
JB: Oh man, you know! [laughs] This is Russell’s answer on that one, because I would have loved to have had a nice scene with Russell Tovey, that would have been great. But Russell T. Davies says he couldn’t have gone to a network and said, “Here’s this character, Captain Jack Harkness, the hero of our show. He’s already got a boyfriend, he’s already got this, he’s already got that, blahblahblahblah. This is what you have to accept.”
He couldn’t really do that. And also Russell [Tovey]’s got his own career on Being Human; if he wants to bite me at any time, he can. And he knows that, because I text him every so often just to keep in touch with what’s going on. In fact, I hope to see him at Comic-Con this year, because I don’t get to see him as much in the UK as I would like to. I say that like he’s my best mate, but hopefully I’ll see him at Comic-Con.
AE: So speaking of Comic-Con, how would you differentiate your musical theater fanbase from your sci-fi fanbase?
JB: I don’t differentiate them – I think they’re one and the same because musical theater to me is a heightened reality, where we take subject matter and deal with it in a different way, which would be through song – when you no longer can speak, you have to burst into song and express yourself that way, or through dance. Sci-fi is very much the same; you deal with subject matter with aliens and things that are unreal and situations that are slightly unreal and heightened. So I think the crossover – a lot of my sci-fi fans have gone to see some musicals because they like some of the shows and they like that aspect of it, and vice versa, the musical fans who I’ve introduced to sci-fi. A lot of people may disagree with me, but I don’t see them as very different, because I think the heightened reality of it all makes them the same.
AE: Do they both have the same level of fervor?
JB: Passion, are you talking? Yes. And I absolutely love that. It’s very interesting when I talk to people about the passion of sci-fi fans and the passion of musical theater fans; some can use the word “obsessive,” but I have no problem with that, because I myself am a sci-fi fan and I myself am a musical theater fan, so when I go to Comic-Con, I give myself my time beforehand to walk around and buy all my T-shirts. Last time, I had them build me an Iron Man statue and all that kind of stuff. So I understand it, and I appreciate it, and I don’t want anyone to change.
AE: You wore a kilt to your civil union ceremony, right?
JB: I did, yes.
AE: That’s one of those indelibly-burned images.
JB: Is it, really? I was a true Scotsman, there was nothing underneath. Or rather, there is something underneath, but…
AE: No article of clothing, gotcha. How’s married life going?
JB: It’s going really well! Scott and I have been together now for 17 years. The difference is, and I say this because I know everyone out there is an advocate for civil partnerships or marriage or whatever you want to call it in this country, all of a sudden Scott comes over here and we don’t have the same legal rights as we do in the UK. And while I’m fortunate enough to have an American passport and my dual nationality, he’s not recognized as my partner, and so he doesn’t have the same benefits that I do over here, which I think is absolutely ridiculous.
When we go through customs, purposely we go though together, I take him with me in my line. They say he should be in the other line, and I say, “No, he’s my partner.” And when they say, “What do you mean, partner?” I never call him this, but I say, “He’s my husband,” just to stir them up a little bit, because I just like to see their reaction. And they actually say to us, “We don’t recognize that in this country.” And it angers me.
AE: The whole bi-national couple issue is getting a lot more attention lately.
JB: Sure! Loads of my friends who are Americans have partners who are from Europe somewhere. Not even just that – it’s a problem for people here, two Americans who are wanting to settle down and to have a marriage and to solidify what they have. We should be able to, so I hope it changes quite soon. The really nice thing is that there’s a whole generation out there that’s coming up, and it’s my nephew and niece’s age, and they really don’t give a shit. And they’re the ones – we’re pushing for the change, and I don’t want to sound like an old fogey, but they’re the ones who are probably gonna make that change. I think there was a poll the other day that said 57% of people don’t mind if two men or two women have a marriage or have that status, so things are changing. I say we take the marriage word out of it.
AE: Really?
JB: That’s my opinion. Because that’s what upsets the religious people the most. Plus, I know there’s a lot of faith-based gay men and women out there, and that’s a great thing, but I just feel if that word “marriage” means so much to the fundamentalists and all those radicals out there that they don’t want to lose it, let them have it. Let’s create another name for it.
I think if the government got out of the marriage business and made “marriage” an exclusively religious thing, then yeah, everybody would get their partnership, their union, whatever, and the issue of “marriage” be decided from religion to religion. But as long as government sanctions marriage, not getting that under that same name puts us in the separate-but-equal zone.
But also, I’ll just remind all those groups that claim ownership of that word, that word was not a religious word when it began. It was because marriage was happening that the church grabbed onto it, to have something to do with it. So it wasn’t yours to begin with.So give it back!
AE: Are you guys thinking about parenting?
JB: Ah! [inhales sharply] You know, I would love to. I don’t think Scott is as gung-ho with it at the moment as I am, because I think…well, I’d have to let him say for himself. But [if] I really wanted to, I think he would. I think we would have one and I would adopt one. But with what I’m doing, traveling back and forth, it would be quite difficult and it would be unfair to put a child into different schools all the time, although Eve is doing it with her baby. But I think they’re gonna stay here a lot longer – Scott and I have to go back and forth, because I’ve got shows in the UK that I gotta do, plus I produce one over there.
So it would be a little more difficult, and I think that if we adopted, we wouldn’t be adopting a baby. We’d be adopting a child that was a little older, not just because we don’t want to deal with diapers but because there are a lot of children out there who are of an older age who don’t get adopted. And also teenagers. Scott and I have talked about this, and we could offer a great deal, and give a lot of love; we have a great home, a great solid grounding for them, and also great opportunities. So that’s how we look at it.
AE: Because you know, your arch-nemesis Neil Patrick Harris has kids now.
JB: Well, you know, that’s … they’ve got the babies, and they’re a bit younger than Scott and I are, and that’s great. My nieces and nephews, I changed their diapers and stuff, but I think I wouldn’t mind having one of my own. But upfront, I’d have to have a nanny. Or a manny. A manny who doubles as a pool-boy. [laughs] You gotta have one, and I’m sure Neil Patrick Harris has one, let me tell you. [laughs]
AE: I was Arts Editor at the Advocate when you did your coming-out interview in the magazine, around the time that De-Lovely was released. Did that change things?
JB: The funny thing is, that no one really took notice of it. And when I did it, it was almost by accident, and it just happened. I was asked about it, and I mentioned my partner Scott, and actually the interviewer said to me, “Do you realize that you just came out?” And I went, “I didn’t ever really think I was in.” You know, everybody knew I was gay.
I don’t think it’s changed anything. Again, all the guys who are my age or older, we can start sounding bit old-fashioned if we keep harping about how things haven’t changed or we’re still struggling. Yes, there’s a good deal of things out there that need to change, but the generation that’s coming up – and in the gay world, five years is a generation, you know what I mean? – men who are five years, ten years younger than us, they’re making changes themselves, and actually they’re doing things by not doing things, if that makes sense. Because it’s not that big an issue to them. And I’m not denying what we’ve gone though, what we’ve done…
AE: No, but I think the goal for people our age was to make being gay less of a big deal.
JB: And it’s worked! That’s what happened. And it’s worked for this other generation, but we still have a whole lot of people out there who are not openly gay because they think it’s going to affect their jobs and stuff. Now I’m not out there to out people, and if that’s what you choose to do, that’s your choice, and I don’t see anything wrong with that. But I must say, if you’re doing it because you think it’s detrimental to your career, the more of us who come out and do things openly – I guarantee you, there’s a lot of us in Hollywood.
And if we all just come out and don’t worry about it – in fact, not even come out, just live. If we could just be ourselves and live and not pretend and not lie and not have beards, things would be a lot different. And the public, in a way, has to accept that stuff. If a big Hollywood A-lister came out, do you really think it’s going to affect the films?
AE: They obviously do. But no, I’m with you on that one.
JB: People are not that stupid. And I think we need to give the people more power in that sense. There might be an area of society that will never believe it, will never want to believe it, but that’s their choice. I don’t have a choice, they do. You know what I mean?
AE: So getting back to the show: This is your fourth go-round, and every time you got bumped up the BBC chain [the first series aired on BBC Three, the second on BBC Two, the third on BBC One], and now you’re a US-UK co-production. Did you have any idea that it would be this kind of ride when you started?
JB: No, I had no idea. I wanted it to be this kind of ride when we started, and my wish came true. We started off on the smallest digital channel from the BBC, we got the biggest ratings on that and moved to BBC Two, we had stellar ratings on that. Moved to BBC One, stellar ratings also. I knew they were working to push this further, but wasn’t allowed to talk about it, so when I was saying publicly my opinion that I wished there were more episodes than five, that it would be silly if we didn’t do it again, that was John Barrowman speaking, because I love Captain Jack, I love the show, I know how much the show is loved.
So I got in a little bit of shtick from people saying I was too outspoken and speaking out against the BBC – I wasn’t. I was actually just saying what my opinion was: If you have a good job, you want more of it. And fortunately, Russell and Julie, who runs the BBC, and Starz were all banding together to make it happen, and they have. So I did get my wish! I got more episodes, I got more Torchwood, I got more Captain Jack.
AE: Work on world peace next time.
JB: [laughs] Stick me in a room with all these leaders, I tell ya – I’ll show them a thing or two. That’s what I always think they should do: Strip ’em all down and sit ’em in a room naked, see what happens. I wouldn’t want to be there, I wouldn’t want to be watching that, but it might calm things down a little.
AE: Is the show divorced from Doctor Who now?
JB: No, we mention the Doctor in this series. Because we’re part of that world, we came from that world. You can’t deny your history. But we are a stand-alone show now. What I always say is that we separated from the mothership, but we still make references and hopefully, one day, Jack will go back to Who. That’s my opinion, not anybody else’s, but I would love to cross over with the new Doctor and just see what would happen with him and Jack.
I would have loved to have done that with Liz Sladen – Liz always wanted to work more with me – but unfortunately that won’t happen now. Our matriarch is gone. [Sladen, beloved Doctor Who co-star and the star of the Davies-scripted Who spin-off The Sarah Jane Adventures, died April 19 after battling cancer. Barrowman and Sladen appeared together briefly during the 2008 Doctor Who series finale.]
AE: For U.S. television, Captain Jack is something of an anomaly – we have a handful of queer characters, but not many action heroes. Does he stand out less among the characters on UK TV?
JB: It’s just part of the landscape, I think. We don’t really make an issue out of it. I’m not the first person on American television who’s a bisexual character, but there are a lot of characters represented. I’m quoting what Russell has said, I’m sure there’s others out there, but it’s the first time that a bisexual hero has been played by an openly gay man. There’s no heroes out there where the men [who play them] are openly gay. And that’s just what it is, really, but it’s not an issue in the UK, even when it started.
I remember the episode of Doctor Who where I kiss the Doctor, it just kind of came and went, and no one made an issue out of it. No one said anything; the newspapers actually kind of missed it, and we didn’t make it a big sensational thing out of it. I don’t think it will be an issue over here, and if it is – well, excuse me, but change the fucking channel. [laughs] Do you know what I mean?
AE: It’s just that queer characters are all over the American TV landscape, but they tend to be lawyers, or they’re in comedies. We don’t get a lot of derring-do.
JB: No, you don’t, but it’s time we do. What people have to remember is that I’m a gay man at home and in the outside world, and at work I’m a hero. I don’t bring my personal life into the – well, actually, this sounds stupid, but I have sex with men, Captain Jack has sex with men, so maybe I do bring my personal life into it. [laughs] But I’ve played heterosexual characters, I’ve played ingénues, I’ve played the lead characters in most of the shows I’ve been in, and most of them have been straight. So this is actually something different for me, in a way. Listen, it will be interesting to see how it takes, and I’m sure I’ll get some kind of … people will always complain about something.
AE: And actually, if anyone has sailed these waters in American TV, it’s Starz with Spartacus.
JB: Correct, and thank god for Starz. We’re so glad to be with such a good network, because they’re the ones who break the boundaries a little bit more than the others. A lot of people were worried that we were going to be watered-down when we went to American, but we’re actually not – we’re even edgier than before. There’s some really great sex scenes with Jack and some men, and it’s really portrayed truthfully and honestly, it’s fantastic. People who complain, generally, are the people who don’t even watch the damn show.
And I’ve had first-hand experience with that in the UK, where they’ve complained about something I’ve done, and you go and read what they said, and you know they’ve not read the article, they didn’t listen to the radio show, and they’ve not seen the TV show. They don’t know what the hell they’re talking about.
AE: That’s the nature of the internet commenter. It’s great that Russell has maintained so much control over the show, because Showtime recently aired Episodes over here. I don’t know if you saw it, but it’s about two creators of a British hit show having everything changed in the U.S. version. And that’s happened to a lot of UK talent when their shows have crossed the pond.
JB: Well one thing you have to remember is that we’re a collaboration between the BBC Worldwide, and also BBC One with Starz. We still have the heart and essence of what’s made Torchwood so special, and we still have that. And we have everything that’s even edgier on top of that. So the soul of the show has not changed. I can guarantee to the audience who’s going to watch it because they’re staunch fans, they’re gonna know what they’re looking at.
AE: Had you been much of a sci-fi fan before this gig?
JB: Oh god, yeah! I grew up on Star Wars, I still have all my Star Wars toys – actually, I gave them to my nephew Turner, he looks after them now. The original Battlestar Galactica, Space: 1999, Star Trek, um, Thunderbirds, even coming up into the new era of V, I remember the original miniseries. And Doctor Who! I was a Doctor Who baby; I grew up watching Sarah Jane as one of the assistants, Tom Baker, John Pertwee, all the Doctors of that time. I used to stay up and watch PBS, because that’s where you got Doctor Who. I’m a fan-geek, and I’m proud, and I love it. To this day, I still download shows I can’t watch when they’re airing. I still have Battlestar Galactica to get through, the new series. But it’s great, one of the directors from that, we’ve worked with her here.
AE: Do you see an end to Torchwood?
JB: Well obviously, there will be an end to it at some point, but you know, I’m not ready for it to end. Touch wood, what I’d love to have happen is we do four or five more series, keep going strong, and then finish, and then maybe a year after, do a movie. I don’t know what I’ll look like, you know…
AE: Playing an immortal can be a drag.
JB: Exactly! I am gonna get older, so we have to figure something out. But I would be happy – although I do other entertainment stuff, I do other TV shows, I do books with my sister for young teenagers, I’ve got my music – if someone were to say to me, you’re only going to play Captain Jack for the rest of your career, I would be completely content. I love him, I love the show, I love what we stand for, I love what he stands for, and I love coming to work every day. It’s a thrill.
AE: Will you ever do a musical episode?
JB: I’d love to. I don’t know if Russell’s game for it, but I’d love to do one. We’d have to be on a planet where music controls everything, or is the only mode of communication. I would have no problem. But I think we’d have to dub Eve [Myles’] voice, she’s not a singer. [laughs]
AE: She could always talk her way through like Rex Harrison.
JB: Kai [Owen] would be great. Alexa [Havins]? Not so sure. Mekhi [Phifer]? He’s a great rapper. So we’ve got every demographic covered.
AE: Any final thoughts?
JB: Thank you to everyone at AfterElton for all the support you’ve given me over the years, and to all the people who hit the website and put me in the top five every year in the best gay men out there poll, I really appreciate it and I’m proud to represent the gay-lesbian-bisexual-transgender community, and I will always do that, no matter what. Anyone who doesn’t have a voice will always have a voice through me.
(с)
@темы: quotes, actor: john barrowman, scott is my favorite, "rps meta", tv: torchwood, ВВС meta
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27.06.2011 в 21:47да! спасибо этому журналисту
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27.06.2011 в 22:32I never call him this, but I say, “He’s my husband,” just to stir them up a little bit, because I just like to see their reaction
.."I don’t want to sound like an old fogey..."
!!!
Знаете, немножко грустное впечатление... Он говорит о возрасте, упоминает того же Патрика - более молодого... Печально ине...
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27.06.2011 в 22:49Эйрелл я надеюсь какаянить доброя душа соберется перевести это интервью всем
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27.06.2011 в 22:56то, как он упоминает о возрасте, о своем поколении, как раз, среди прочего, и делает интервью таким прекрасным
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27.06.2011 в 23:00yes, thanks to that guy for a rare occasion when I don't have to ask myself why i became JB's fan
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27.06.2011 в 23:07-
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27.06.2011 в 23:08О, безусловно!
Но мне всё равно грустно, потому что в словах Джона слышны ноты того, что он уже не может быть прежним...
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27.06.2011 в 23:43Торчвуд еще сильнее хочется посмотреть. Я уверена, что это будет потрясающе.
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27.06.2011 в 23:49Вот... не только мне стало грустно...
И про детей, и про Скотта. Умираю от нежности к ним обоим.
Да...Да! Только не надо умирать, но сердце защемило...
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28.06.2011 в 06:22Интервью прекрасное, большое и насыщенное! И заанчивается на такой ноте, ох! И звучит это ничуть не слишком пафосно! Потому что это правда!
Мне даже про Тови понравилось, как журналист Алонсо упомянул и как Джон развеселился от этого ))) В курсе дел чувак оказался.
За Лорен кстати правда обидно, чего он не похвалил как она поет... Может, он только "команду Торчвуда" оценивал, а она-то из "врагов"! Наверное, поэтому.
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28.06.2011 в 09:09Спасибо большое за интервью. Действительно, приятно было прочесть, без лишней воды, хорошим языком, хотя честно скажу, торчвудоподробности просто пробежала глазами.
Ah! [inhales sharply] You know, I would love to. I
Yes, yes tell us more. U know, I don't feel sorry for him anymore)) Everytime it's the same old track. Oh, I would love to, look at me, I'm sooo nice, I love kids, and that Bad Guy Scott!! He's not so into it...But to be honest, yes....I don't have much time, I'm an actor, a singer, a producer, an author, a cook, and...and...an austronaut and a fucking Batman when I have a free minute...Why do not to start with this?)) You are a fucking workaholic. Shut the fuck up.
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28.06.2011 в 13:05и, кстати, лично я не вижу посыла "Bad Guy Scott!! He's not so into it." в том, как Джон говорит о Скотте, не сильно горящем желанием завести ребенка.
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28.06.2011 в 13:26~McLaren~ Why do not to start with this?)) вот это мы ему с самого начала говорили!!!
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28.06.2011 в 14:25по-моему ты слишком строга к нему в этом вопросе. Я думаю, там все не настолько очевидно как может показаться.
Я в данном случае не о ситуации говорила, а о том, что говорит он. В своих интервью. А говорит он одно и то же.
alra
изначально же прослеживалось, что это якобы Скотт не хочет детей... (а уж эпитет "бяка такая" добавляли Скотту фанатки
Да, именно))
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28.06.2011 в 14:34Это можно рассматривать как стандартную обтекаемую форму ответа на частые вопросы на эту тему. С другой сторны, если бы что-то изменилось - не стал бы умалчивать, мне кажется.
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28.06.2011 в 15:05Было бы странно, если бы он менял версию каждый раз) Я думаю, он говорит то, что есть. Если он упоминает в первую очередь, что Скотт пока не полностью разделяет его желание завести ребенка, а во вторую свой график, значит первая причина для него скорее всего более важна. Это не значит, что его надо пожалеть, или что Скотт такой нехороший.
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28.06.2011 в 15:17Я высказала свое мнение. Лично на меня эти его слова производят не очень приятное впечатление только и всего) Вообще все эти разговоры о детях, то как они эволюционировали. Если говорить о ситуации, я отметила, что это "мегалогично" - загрузить себя работой по самое не хочу, а потом говорить, что упс, а времени на детей оказывается нету. Но говорить об этом во вторую очередь, а вначале обязательно сказать, что Скотт не горит желанием завести детей.
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28.06.2011 в 15:23-
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28.06.2011 в 15:24